Science Fiction Filme) First of all, I would like to thank you for your time doing this Interview. I think you´re work has got a huge fan base here in Germany. Especially because for films like INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM, COCOON or HOWARD THE DUCK of course. A lot of movie maniacs know the films you´re involved in. Could you please tell us what you did before you come into film business.

 

Caroleen Green) Before I came into the Film business I worked as an illustrator at my first illustration job. It was a commercial sweatshop and prepared me for what was to come at Lucasfilms Industrial,Light, and Magic. For one year I worked in the commercial print field in Atlanta, Georgia. My art director was an ogre from hell. I felt like a slave painting objects such as hamburgers, goofy eyed kids eating hamburgers and other such meaningless commercial print subject matter. I feel this prepared me for the test I took to get into Industrial Light and Magic's matte department. Before that, I had the luxury of going to art school at Art Center College of Design. The critiques were heavenly compared to what was to come in my future of being a commercial artist.

 

SFF) Why have you chosen the way of being into matte painting? Do you have any personal idols or role models in your business? Is there a movie or an event which makes you think: “I want to do the same thing.”?

 

C.G.) I have to say, Matte Painting chose me. I did not know matte painting existed until Frank Ordaz asked me if I wanted to try out for the job . I didn't know what it was only that I would get to paint and thats what pulled me in.

I remember I was definitely a movie watcher growing up. Science Fiction movies were my favorite. I used to love the creatures in movies such as the THE EYE OF THE TIGER and the Sinbad movies. I loved all the Ray Harryhausen movies. The creatures were so amazing and magical. So if anything I wanted to be a creature maker, a sculptor. I loved Phil Tippets work. But I fell in love with realistic painting when I was 19. I was obsessed with the process of painting realistically. Things, objects, people, landscapes. I loved realism. That was my true love.

 

I said to myself one day I want to be a great painter and I want the whole world to love my paintings, but I didn't say specifically anything else and so my wish came true, with Matte Painting, (although the world doesn't know it) they see and love what we do as Matte painters.

 

Idols role models? The guys that I worked with in the matte department, I totally bowed and looked up to. It seemed that everyone I met at Industrial, Light, Magic had a quality of genius that was so amazing. Chris Evans taught me a lot about painting in general besides Matte Painting and Michael Pangrazio grounded me. He would tell me to just keep plugging away and “you can do it”. Michael was always right in his decision making for Matte Painting and rarely made a mistake. Frank Ordaz taught me a quality of organization and perseverance. No matter what the critique he just hung in there and stayed lighthearted.

 

Craig Barron the matte camera supervisor who was 10 years younger than me, was kind to me and patient. He was always willing to teach me about what I was to do as a Matte Painter for the shots I worked on. And he put up with my every question. Wade Childress, Matte camera man. Also a very patient brother. I was lucky , I was teased by Michael on occasion but these guys were good brothers. We were all just doing our best. One of my favorite painters of all time is Albert Whitlock unbelievably incredible! Then I worked with Michael Pangrazio and Mark Sullivan . Wow! I felt grateful and lucky to work alongside these great artists.

 

SFF) If I´m informed correctly you started your professional career with your work in THE NEVERENDING STORY. How did you get to this project and what did you learn from your first engagement the most?

 

C.G.) I was new at industrial light and Magic. I was an apprentice. ILM had three big movies in. THE NEVERENDING STORY, STAR TREK 3 and INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM. I was assigned the paintings. In the matte department, the Matte Artists would have a meeting and look at the storyboards , the movie we were about to work on. All of us would talk about which paintings would suit our experience. So basically I was assigned to work on the paintings for THE NEVERENDING STORY  according to my experience at the time.

 

Michael Pangrazio was teaching me how to matte paint . Which means: he would teach me how to paint quickly and realistically for film by just throwing me in the fire. If I made a mistake or couldnt get something, he would step in and show me how to. Chris Evans would do the same. This is how I learned. I had to deal with my ego being smashed. The more i was smashed up and made mistakes, the more confident I became and unafraid of making mistakes.

 

I would slowly start each painting by blocking in the main colors loosly with big brushes. We would have critiques and if I came to a point where I painted what I was assigned to the best of my abilities then Michael would take over and make it even better. This is how I learned how to matte paint.

 

Chris Evans also taught me many of the techniques of matte painting. How to make something look realistic with large brushstrokes using crumpled up newspaper for example to get the look of rocks or just how to get a realistic look using 4 basic colors and values and as I went along, I learned what was going to work on Film by all the tests we would do on the paintings. The most important piece that I learned in the beginning of my matte painting journey was trusting myself, and my abilities amongst the great artists that I was working with. Keeping quiet, listening, and watching . The next thing I learned about Matte Painting was how much I could get away with in making something look realistic on film.

 

Brushstrokes would blend together perfectly on film. But when you looked at the painting close up in real time you could see all the brushstrokes and then you wonder how did that come together so perfectly on film? That was the beauty of traditional Matte painting at the time.

 

What I had to learn was techniques of matte painting . How to paint for film . How film changed the painting . Painting fast happened by using these matte painting techniques. Timing myself in order to work fast and yet approaching painting slowly . The less mistakes I made the faster I worked.

 

 

SFF) You have artistically created some of the most memorable scenes in film history. I will mention TEMPLE OF DOOM as an example. Many of your works do exactly what you need for a good film: they are ingenious because they are so inconspicuous. Where do you get your inspiration from and how long does it take you to create a painting like the ones in DOOM?

 

C.G.) I have to say initially that I alone did not create some of the most memorable scenes in film history. I was lucky enough to be apart of this amazing group of artists who created some of the most memorable scenes in film history, it was an amazing collaboration. Many creative souls coming together and making creative decisions and my inspiration initially comes from my obsession with painting anything realistically, and really loving the understanding of what I can do with the knowledge of color theory. When I paint something realistically, I am thrilled.

 

 In matte painting,matte painters love fooling everyone into thinking that they're seeing something realistic that we painted. The other thing that inspired me were the artists I worked with.  All the painters were great  to work alongside with. Especially when working on George Lucas or Spielberg films. How long does it take to do a matte painting.? It should take a matte painter anywhere from two days to a month depending on how complicated the matte painting is. The matte paintings I worked on usually would take one to two weeks and I was working a 10 hour day, so it was a very intense focus. I had a very big appetite ate a lot of sandwiches and snacks and if I had to stay up all night, I would . i needed alot of fuel to keep my energy going.

 

I also would be the only one staying overnight in the lunchroom sleeping on the sofa just to keep up with the guys. They were faster painters of course, and I was an apprentice in the beginning. I eventually learned how to paint in a very efficient way. Focused and fast. Not literally fast. I made correct decisions, less mistakes slowly and I would end up painting fast in this way.

 

SFF) Let's take the cliff shot from TEMPLE OF DOOM as an example. How should I imagine this kind of collaboration with Chris Evans and Mr. Pangrazio? Does one start drawing and the other finishes it? Does everyone have their own specialty?

 

C.G.) I started it , Michael made it better, Chris Evans finished it.

Everyone does not have their own specialty. Every Matte Painter is at a different expertise level of skill. We all understand what it takes to make something look realistic. We all have training in traditional, realistic, painting, or photo realistic painting. Each painter has a style you might say, but not because they are trying to stylize their painting skill as a matte painter. It's just because of their unique quality as a human being that they paint the way they do. matte painting is not fine Art. It is a technical skill and we are all meeting the needs of what the film is about. It's all about the movie and fooling the audience into thinking they're looking at an environment that's realistic. This is commercial work not fine art.

 

We all set out to paint our assigned shot beautifully and in a spontaneous unknown atmosphere of creation. One of the artist might need help or a critique to make the work beautiful. It is a controlled art form and at the same time in a spontaneous moment, we make decisions on how to achieve a perfect environment for the film. That's what was exciting about Matte Painting. There's an unknown quality, even if you've planned ahead on how to do the shot.

 

 

SFF) There's a fantastic shot from the same movie, with a cliff where INDIANA JONES practically falls out via a waterfall. This scene is a combination of matte painting, a miniature wall and the scenes filmed in real life. How should I imagine such scenes are created? The transitions have to be perfect in order not to be seen. How did you go about it?

 

C.G.) I am a matte painter ONLY. The scene is worked out , in the beginning before it gets to me. I paint only what is assigned to me. Before that happens, many meetings happen between the story board artist , art director, VFX Supervisor and director design and work it all out .Then there are matte paintings that are discussed and designed with the Matte Painting supervisor and Matte painting camera supervisor. This is all practical FX. Digital Fx is different.

 

Then the specific shots come to me and I start those paintings. Each one can be very different and has its own challenges. When you say transitions. Im not sure what exactly you are talking about. I can guess that the matte painter paints the shot and depending what kind of shot it is from start to finish the magic of the editor is the one who sews it all together for perfect transitioning. Not me as the matte painter. In our digital age its done differently . Sometimes the matte painters or environments artist will carry out everything and this i do not do. I am a painter.

 

SFF) There is a similar combination scene in THE GOLDEN CHILD. Here you have painted a glass painting (as far as I know) which also works with live action and miniature elements. How long do you need for such a painting and how do you create the transitions?

 

C.G.) The glass shot I painted for the GOLDEN CHILD had a live action foreground. I basically painted a “set extension” of Tibetan monks and that was optically put together with the live action of the Tibetan monks in the foreground.

 

SFF) Frank Ordaz told me that the work he, you and Sean Joyce did on HOWARD THE DUCK was fun, but ultimately a little unsatisfying because all the extra-cinematic circumstances were so difficult. Can you agree with that? Did these circumstances make the work harder?

 

J.G.) My question to you is how can the work be fun and unsatisfying? That is a very contradictory statement because when the work is fun for me, It is satisfying. I could also say the work was fun but the actual story was unsatisfying . At the time , we found HOWARD THE DUCK to be a potentially unpopular film . But amazingly enough it actually got popular as time passed and the future generations developed a love for it!

 

As far as I remember, I did not have to deal with any extra cinematic circumstances that were so difficult. I was not the supervisor on that movie. I dealt with painting only. The paintings I worked on for HOWARD THE DUCK  were well done. I felt that I was coming into my own as a matte painter and I was successful at the work I accomplished on that film.

 

If I had anything to say about Howard the Duck I was not inspired by the actual story or characters. But I can say that I enjoyed doing the work. Also recently I watched HOWARD  and found it to be more entertaining now . I watched in again around 2020.

 

SFF) Many movies back in the days are full of matte paintings which you can't see. This is the magic of this technique, whether it is in COCOON or AKIRA KUROSAWAS DREAMS. Is there still a favorite painting of yours and why?

 

C.G.) Matte painting or environments are supposed to be invisible. The director and all of his crew are creating a believable world in order to entertain millions of people and make millions of dollars. We all love being fooled into alternate realities dont we? Its so much fun and thrilling.

 

I would say out of all the movies Ive seen and know about , I always remember Albert Witlocks painting of New York city with the HINDENBURG passing by. I also would say that I have favorite Matte Painters and love their work. Albert Witlock, Michael Pangrazio , Chris Evans and Mark Sullivan. These Matte painters have done incredible work.

 

SFF) Your paintings are so beautiful and fantastic. Which kind of surface treatment is your favorite one and why? Oil or acryl or something else?

 

C.G.) When I´m matte painting traditionally , acrylic paint is the better medium to use. When painting clouds, oil paint is the best medium to use. Sometimes starting with acrylic paint and going over it with oil paint is a great method. With Acrylic paint , this medium is more precise and its better to use oils for softer subject matter like skys and clouds.

 

SFF) You have done so much great jobs like in BATTERIES NOT INCLUDED, LABYRINTH or THE GOONIES. Some are based on reality and some are pure fantasy. Which themes do you prefer from a painterly artistic point of view?

 

C.G.) I actually enjoy both real and fantasy subject matter. Ultimately I have to paint realistically for both subjects and so I love both.

 

SFF) Do you have a certain style of painting that you admire the most?

 

C.G.) I love impressionism, surrealism, and expressionistic painting. As a fine artist I am developing in that direction.

 

SFF) If you have to choose three tools which you need for your work; which would it be and why?

 

C.G.) Its hard to narrow it down to 3 tools because I cant do much with a limited tool chest.

 

My tools: as a fine artist or traditional matte painter.

1.acrylic and oil paint, solvent, linseed oil and brushes and of course the surface- that can be many options with lots of rags. This all depends on what I will be creating. For fine art - quadruple oil prime linen canvas.

 

2- a Mac laptop or- the best high end computer with a large screen and a wacom tablet- for creating conceptual work.

 

3. a projector- that hooks up to the computer and I can project images on the surface I will paint on.

 

SFF) We all have our favorite movies. Mine is PHASE IV for example. But which movies do you like? Which movies do you not like?

 

C.G.) I really dont like and I am really exhausted from war movies and violent explosive movies. Really creepy stuff coming through on to the screen . Too much killing and bloody abusive violent stuff. Theres a lot of darkness in film and I have a hard time watching those kinds of movies

 

I still love science fiction if it has a great story. There is alot of violence at times in science fiction but it all depends on how great is the story for me.

Chopped up limbs and on and on, although I know how its created I think It’s becoming too realistic. I just saw the new DUNE AND FURIOSA and both were very good and yet so dark , creepy and violent. I need to just pull back and wish for more romantic comedies, inspiring animation and something spiritually evolved.

 

SFF) What is your opinion about education to become an expert in matte painting? Is there any requirement or talent you need to have next to enthusiasm?

 

J.G.) You need to be in love with your work. I mean really in love. Not just enthusiastic. Because the work is so hard and difficult at times, the critiques can be brutal, the hours are long , the only thing that will bring you through for years or just months is really loving what you are doing and seeing your creation in the end and how proud you can feel because you worked on just a piece of it or the whole thing.

 

The other thing you need to realize in this work is you cant bring your big fat ego along with you . I advize you not to argue with your directors and supervisors but to collaborate and feel grateful that this creative work chose you to be a part of its monstrous creation. It is truely amazing.

 

SFF) Nowadays you are working in the field of visual effects for films like KUNG FU PANDA or ROCK DOG, which are digitally processed. Can you tell us how the field of matte painting has changed compared to the 80s and 90s? How much has the traditional work of matte painting changed with regard to the new tools?

 

C.G.) I worked on Kung Fu Panda in 2008 and Rock Dog in 2016 . It is now 2024. There is no traditional matte painting anymore. The computer has changed everything. I did recently paint one traditional matte painting for” Skeleton Crew”

 

A new Disney Star Wars chapter coming out in November on the Disney channel. It looks great too! The only reason why I was asked to paint a matte painting for this production was because the Director and writer are fans of practical FX.

 

The digital work world is for the new generation of artists who love working on the computer. My true love is painting with real paint and brushes. I do love working and using my computer for creative concept work and for that I am grateful. But I have no interest in learning the complicated programs that artists are tasked with these days. This is not my true love.

 

SFF) Imagine you meet an extraterrestrial one day. He wants to know why you were stuck into movies with just one movie to explain, which will it be and why?

 

C.G.)  CLOSE ENCOUNTER OF THE THRID KIND (1977). It would be my way of bridging the communication between me and the extraterrestrial. Assuming the extraterrestrial it is friendly and open. It would be my way of extending a friendly hand .But my role would be supporting a part of a group in extending our open hand. This would be a great movie to explain to a friendly extraterrestrial. Then it would not have any confusion as to where my heart is with connecting with it.

 

SFF) What do you think of your kind of work in film? Is it just a technical one or is it art? Do Matte Painting get enough recognition?

 

C.G.) Matte painting was never suppose to get recognition. Its suppose to be hidden. We idealistically do not want to spoil the whole creation by saying and pointing out where its fake. That spoils the whole story. It is technical and there is an art to it that is magically fooling whoever is watching the movie. Movie making is definitely art and matte painting is a part of that movie making magic.

 

I do believe there are matte painters that should have received academy awards. In being a part of the moving making machine, artists also have to play the game of being nice to those who give out the awards and unfortunately artists are unique and outspoken. They are not the ones who like playing the game.

 

SFF) What is your passion these days? What do you do and how do you live your life?

 

C.G.) Nowadays I am a fine artist living on Maui , oil painting beautiful landscapes and portraits. My paintings can be seen and bought through Viewpoints Gallery , Makawao, Hawaii. 808-572-5979My instagram account is– jettg–

 

I start my day by driving or riding my road bike down to the ocean , swimming in the beautiful waves and then coming home and painting from 4 pm till 2am.

 

SFF) Do you have a project you always wanted to do or are there something in progress we can enjoy in the future?

 

C.G.) Yes and am working on several paintings for Viewpoints gallery for the December 8th opening of the "voice of ancestors" show, the february 16th "Celebration of Hawai" show and one of my potraits has been accepted  to show in the Schaeffer potrait challenge showing January 14th on Maui Arts and Cultural Center. Each show is up for two months.  

 

I feel honored to be a part of this group of artists here in Hawaii , honoring Hawaiin culture. I always follow my creative inspirations and take risks in trying new forms of expressions. Singing , acting, improv, dynamic activities like trapeze . Now Ive come to Hawaii to focus on my first love: painting.

 

SFF) I held up with the most important question to the end: What was the most difficult painting you were working on and why?

 

C.G.) The most difficult paintings , not just one painting but many were the matte paintings I did when I was learning how to matte paint. Each time I was assigned a shot, I would look at the story board and say to myself. I have no idea how  to do this. But somehow , in the moment, it always seemed to unfold and create itself with the help of Michael and Chris. I have to say, the cliff shot for the TEMPLE OF DOOM was quite challenging at the time and the “Spire” for THE NEVERENDING STORY was one of the scarier experiences Ive every had.

 

The story : I was new , just a month into my matte painting career. I was assigned the “Spire” shot in THE NEVERENDING STORY.I started with a sunset sky on a 4 x 6 foot piece of masonite. I just went for it.I had not painted anything that large before and especially a sunset sky. Chris Evans suggested I paint over the acrylic paint with oils . If only i knew then what I know now. I knew nothing about oil painting at that time. I stayed up past midnight working in oils on the sky . I added large amounts of linseed oil to the paint. I thought the results were wonderful. The next morning I came into work and the linseed oil was oozing and dripping on the painting . Like it was crying linseed oil tears. I was in shock ! Thank God Chris Evans. He saved the day and knew how to clean it up from all the excess linseed oil . I made many mistakes and learned so much.

 

SFF) Thank you for this great interview, Miss Green.

 

C.G.) Thank you for this opportunity to share some of my experiences. Following ones bliss is not easy.